Dowlphin

Finer mouse speed settings than n/11 in Windows? (Alcor)

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Dowlphin    0

I like to use my Alcor in the highest dpi setting only, since the fps games I play have their own direct settings anyway, and I hate having to switch stuff around a lot. I also actually like to have acceleration outside of games. But what is important to me is precisely the right speed, which games can set, but Windows seems a bit more problematic. With my old 400 dpi mouse, 6/11 was ideal. Now with the Alcor at 4000 dpi, 1/11 is too slow, but 2/11 is way too fast. I'd need something like 1.25/11, but it doesn't look like Windows accepts decimal values there. (Or does it? If so, it would need a restart I guess. Maybe I'll try it later, but my gut feeling tells me it won't work.)

 

I only found one document that might - I don't know - somehow be useful, although not in the intended sense:

http://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/149228

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Dowlphin    0

No, those don't help.

I did test a registry patch that is supposed to completely remove mouse acceleration now, and it's not the regular values for enhanced pointer precision, but SmoothMouseXCurve and SmoothMouseYCurve. But those did remove any acceleration - which is not what I want. It's like they simply disabled the functionality completely, overriding the other settings. Could still be that they define the intensity of the acceleration, but I don't know what exactly those hex values do. I'd have to study them in-depth and do tons of testing.

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Pclinde    197

No, those don't help.

I did test a registry patch that is supposed to completely remove mouse acceleration now, and it's not the regular values for enhanced pointer precision, but SmoothMouseXCurve and SmoothMouseYCurve. But those did remove any acceleration - which is not what I want. It's like they simply disabled the functionality completely, overriding the other settings. Could still be that they define the intensity of the acceleration, but I don't know what exactly those hex values do. I'd have to study them in-depth and do tons of testing.

In search of the sweet spot. Too bad the Alcor doesn't support software. :(

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StarCroW    1

Sensitivity is all down to the user's preference of course, but! You shoulden´t use any other Windows sensitivity except 6/11 if you want a more pixel precise experience, because anything below or higher will make Windows scale the movements up or down. At the 6th step you will have a 1:1 ratio where every mouse count will move the pointer one pixel on your screen. Going higher will make the mouse skip pixels and going down will make it throw out some counts.

 

People still seems to think DPI = precision when it isent like that. DPI is mainly a sensitivity value and nothing else when it comes to gaming mice´s.

You should set your windows sensitivity on the 6/11 step and then change your mouse DPI value to the best fitting one(a native one). This way you will still have 1:1 ratio but with a sensitivity you like. That´s also a feature that more modern sensors offers. They offer you native(not interpolated) DPI steps in increments of 50, so you can set the perfect value without touching the Windows sentivity as this will only cripple the performence. If you play games that uses raw input, it shoulden´t be any trouble using the games to set the perfect sensitivity values even if you go down on the DPI value. 

 

The A3090 that Alcor has in it, was often using diffrent native CPI(DPI) values depending on what SROM it used. And It´s been a long time since I played around with it now but the 800DPI step was often the best native one according to my memory ;)  where you had the best perfect control speed. 

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Dowlphin    0

You got some stuff wrong there. For 2D, plane mode, like desktop or DOTA or such, even 400 or 800 dpi can be enough (depending on resolution), and there lack of pixel accuracy is also not a drama. In fps games, in 3D or radial mode, running the mouse with 4000 dpi will create such high precision that even an occasional rounding inaccuracy in mouse movement if not running 6/11 in Windows will be virtually unnoticeable.

I consider the whole thing with the variable mouse dpi and the 6/11 to be number-focused precision-fanaticism disconnected from practical scenarios. ... I still tested my mouse the way it is operating right now, trying to make out the smallest inaccuracies and deviations from expected behavior in fps games, and I couldn't find any. Even in insanely high detail, the mouse works as expected.

I consider it much more important to neutralize the dynamic acceleration. While this, too, is something one can get used to, it is more difficult to do so, and easier to lose the feeling for it when using the mouse in other modes. (Ensuring no dynamic acceleration everywhere is much easier than trying to get the same dynamic curve in all applications.)

I tried running my mouse in 2000 dpi, but in synthetic-like tests, looking really closely, I could perceive an accuracy difference, and since dpi also reflect in movement fluidity, I consider it worth going for the maximum.

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StarCroW    1

You got some stuff wrong there. For 2D, plane mode, like desktop or DOTA or such, even 400 or 800 dpi can be enough (depending on resolution), and there lack of pixel accuracy is also not a drama. In fps games, in 3D or radial mode, running the mouse with 4000 dpi will create such high precision that even an occasional rounding inaccuracy in mouse movement if not running 6/11 in Windows will be virtually unnoticeable.

 

Dowlphin I never in my text wrote about what DPI you need for a certain game genre like DOTA? I myself has since -99 been using 400-500 DPI depending on surface and sensor capabilities. 

I also wrote that DPI IS NOT a measurement of precision, meaning even the low DPI levels like 400 - 800 can be the best out there like I stated with the Alcor.

So I don´t understand your reply that seems to agree with me but tries to go against it  ;) . I also agree that having Windows rounding down the counts is better then scaling them up to some extent.

 

Still mate about the part where you say DPI also reflects in movement fluidity I totally agree with you, but this has alot more to do with the sensors native DPI values and it´s interpolated ones where smoothing is applied. And the 4000 DPI(CPI) level on the Alcor is for a fact a interpolated one and not a native value from the sensor. So your 4000 DPI that your using on the Alcor has more smoothing applied to it, to get rid of some degree of ripple.

Making your movement less fluid to be honest and this in both test enviroment aswell as in practical scenarios....

How I know this you have to ask CM about, as im not enabled to aswer that question  :rolleyes:

 

Im not trying to argue with you thought, my text was about having the optimal setup for Windows so it won´t artificial scaling your mouse movements. 

Still DPI is not a measurement of precision, it´s a sensitivity value and nothing else. 

 

Play with what you like mate, and I hope you find your perfect spot on sensitivity in the end  :)

 

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Dowlphin    0

I didn't say rounding down is better than scaling up. I only care about general accuracy, about whether the deviation from the mathematical ideal is noticeable. (This is also why I highly appreciate 1000 Hz sample frequency.)

DPI effectively is precision, because if you use very low DPI in an FPS game (unless you are an extreme low-senser), you will not be able to target certain small points in the view because the movement steps are too big. It's a resolution thing. In a similar way, screen resolution can aid precision, too.

What I tried to point out to you is that it seemed like you don't understand the profound difference between planar and radial input models and how they result in different DPI requirements.

I run 1/11 with 4000 DPI now. (Got used to it) My my old non-gaming mouse I roughly got the same speed with 6/11 at 400 DPI. With my screen resolution of 2560x1440 I already had exceeded the limits of that, but the difference wasn't severe. But in FPS games it really got extreme, because there the crosshair would jump in steps that if translating the view center to a plane would roughly equate 7 pixels. Not so much an issue when aiming down sights, but some situations didn't allow that.

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StarCroW    1

In an 3D enviroment sensitivity isn't speed. It's a multiple of your mouse yaw and pitch angles.

And precision isn't measured by your mouse DPI, but rather angle (yaw and pitch) and resolution size as you mentioned. But here DPI(CPI) serves as speed.

A lower angle allows for more precision in this case so maxing out your DPI wont do anything in terms of helping your precision. It actually makes it worse.

In an 2D enviroment using windows input instead, the precision is only measured by the windows sensitivity bar. In which case a setting of 6/11 with enhanced precision OFF is the optimal way.

I also wanna quote Logitechs product manager aswell as the programmera at Avago/Pixart on this topic:

" Maxing out your mouse DPI and turning down your sensitivity is much less accurate than leaving your sensitivity at default and adjusting DPI to suit your play style."

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Dowlphin    0

No surprise that programmers would talk about mathematical accuracy and that product managers run that as sales pitch, since it's what the hardcore gamers seem to care about.

The detached-from-praxis approach is also shown by you claiming that turning enhanced precision off enhances precision.

On desktop, it can indeed enhance precision, depending on the user.

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